Keith Edwards: This is the one time where MAGA was very rigid and said, “Actually no, these files need to get released no matter what.” And it created a real divide. And I think that is what we’re feeling. I think maybe that’s what you’re speaking to, is that there’s a real divide now between the fact that there is this MAGA base that has wants, needs, desires. Donald Trump is separate from that now.
Colin Seeberger: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to “The Tent,” your place for politics, policy, and progress. I’m Colin Seeberger. That was political strategist Keith Edwards.
It has been a whirlwind lately as Congress rapidly approved the release of the Epstein files. Donald Trump did sign that bill into law, which instructs the Department of Justice (DOJ) to do so within 30 days. I am sure that Attorney General Pam Bondi is going to get right on that, folks.
Meanwhile, many Americans continue to feel squeezed by the high cost of living. And yet Trump spent the last week enjoying a lavish dinner with the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. I’m sure it is no coincidence that the Trump family has a host of business ventures with the Saudis.
In a time when there’s so much happening, it can really feel difficult to stay on top of everything, much less make sense of it all or figure out how you should be effectively talking about these things with friends and family. That’s why Keith and I broke down how to handle these sorts of awkward political conversations at the Thanksgiving table.
We also chatted about the role that creators play in spotlighting the broad center left’s affirmative agenda to make the country better and how to talk about and make an effective case against Donald Trump’s daily episodes of corruption.
And stick around after the interview for a moment of joy because there is lots to be thankful for.
Seeberger: Keith Edwards is a political strategist and media personality. He’s worked on a number of political campaigns, like Jon Ossoff’s (D) Senate campaign in Georgia and Michael Bloomberg’s (D) 2020 presidential campaign. He currently writes a Substack newsletter called “No Lies Detected” and runs a political commentary channel on YouTube with over 1 million subscribers.
Keith Edwards, welcome to the pod.
Edwards: Thanks for having me.
Seeberger: So we’ve got a lot to discuss. I wanted to start by getting your thoughts on Congress last week voting to release the Epstein files. Donald Trump signed that bill into law last week. The DOJ has 30 days to release the Epstein files. I am curious to get your sense on whether you think Republicans finally, for once—ignore the tariffs, ignore the big ugly bill, whatever—but finally have voted against Donald Trump, or at least what he wanted for several months.
Do you think, one, are we actually going to see the Epstein files? Two, do you think that this split between Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump is here to stay or in the start of something new? Or do you think that this is just a blip in their long-standing relationship?
Edwards: Well, I think this is probably one of the few times where Republicans have—well let me not even say Republicans—elected Republicans were backing him the entire time. I think there were a few who spoke out against what Donald Trump wanted to do, which is to keep the Epstein files hidden.
And I think it was the women—Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), Lauren Boebert (R-CO), and Nancy Mace (R-SC)—who defied Donald Trump because they, as women, probably know more than, at least more than me, what it means to be a woman in this culture. And they wanted to help protect the victims and give them justice.
So I don’t know if it’s necessarily elected Republicans who have gone against Trump, but let me say what was very interesting about this moment, is that it’s the first time where MAGA—MAGA the idea of what it means to be a MAGA conservative—was separate from what Donald Trump wanted it to be. Donald Trump up until this moment has pretty much largely defined what MAGA is and isn’t. That’s why one day he can say he is for defending Ukraine and MAGA is all about it. And then he’s also then saying, “Actually Ukraine’s got to give up some land, and maybe Russia’s got some points.” So he has a lot of flexibility around what he can and cannot be for.
This is the one time where MAGA was very rigid and said, “Actually no, these files need to get released no matter what.” And it created a real divide. And I think that is what we’re feeling. I think maybe that’s what you’re speaking to, is that there’s a real divide now between the fact that there is this MAGA base that has wants, needs, desires. Donald Trump is separate from that now. Now, I don’t know how separate that is, but it’s an interesting situation we find ourselves in.
I think that’s why Donald Trump, who is a narcissist, is lashing out now. Because when narcissists aren’t in control, that’s all they can do is start to throw a tantrum. So I think Marjorie Taylor Greene, though, has been incredibly—I hate giving her too much credit—but I think she’s been very politically astute.
Edwards: Yeah, very agile, in understanding where the base is heading. And understanding, too, Donald Trump is not going to be around forever.
Edwards: And there’s going to be life after Trump. And no one more than Marjorie Taylor Greene has really started to plan for that in a big way.
Seeberger: And nobody who doesn’t have the name Trump, can be Trump.
Seeberger: I totally agree with you. I mean, there’s been some recent polling done showing that about a third of 2024 Trump voters say that they either are dissatisfied or regret their vote. That’s a huge opening. Thinking about a potential crowded primary field for a Republican primary, that’s a huge chunk of the electorate to go after. And I agree, Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to be the only one who’s reading the tea leaves on that.
Moving beyond the Epstein files, I’m curious to get your take on—the president hosted the Saudi crown prince in D.C. last week, wined and dined business leaders alongside the Saudis. The president and his family have made over $1.8 billion in just the last year, largely driven by interest in his crypto venture.
How do you think the left should be talking about the corruption that we’re seeing from this president? It really is unprecedented in terms of its scale. And yet I feel like these episodes happen so frequently that they don’t actually stick with voters.
Edwards: Well, I think the problem is that, I don’t know, you can tell me if this is true or not, but this is what voters feel—that there’s not that big a difference between the corruption on the left and the corruption on the right.
Edwards: I don’t think that’s true, but I think broadly speaking, there is corruption on both sides.
Edwards: And I think we cannot be a party of morality if we champion immorality. And we can champion immorality just by not speaking up against it when it happens. I’m thinking about—I did not even know about this until a few days ago, that there’s this gentleman Garcia, who decided to not run for his seat. And then, wouldn’t you know it, his chief of staff was the only one who filed the paperwork. And then a member of Congress actually spoke up about it—I don’t know her name.
Seeberger: Marie Gluesenkamp Perez.
Edwards: Yeah. But then Democrats defended him, which I think is—I just don’t think we should be doing. Or you have stock trading. We have people who are trading stocks on our side, making lots of money. It would seem to me they’re doing it through information that they’re privy to because of their access as an elected official. They’re making money indirectly or directly from their seat. I think people are sick of this shit on both sides.
Seeberger: It happens on both sides.
Edwards: So I kind of think people are just like, “Well, at least he’s being transparent about it,” you know? And I hate that, but I kind of get it.
Seeberger: They can see the corruption.
Edwards: And I’ve talked to people on the street and I say, “Doesn’t it bother you?” He’s like, “Yeah, well, at least he’s open about it.”
Edwards: The other people do it behind their back. And I don’t think that’s any better.
Edwards: But I do think that if we’re going to be a counter to corruption, we cannot defend corruption on our side. There was a member of Congress—there’s so many members of Congress, you probably will know her name—texting with Epstein, it was found out when the emails came out. Jamie Raskin’s (D-MD) defending it.
Is that defensible? I don’t know. Doesn’t seem good to me that you’re defending someone who at that point was a known sex pest. And he said, ‘Well, he was her constituent.” OK. I don’t think that’s probably worth defending. I think at the very least you could say that’s not above board.
Seeberger: I think that is certainly fair.
Edwards: I know that’s not probably where you wanted me to go with this, but I do think it’s really important that if we are going to be a party of morality, which is the only answer to immorality, is you cannot defend immorality on our side. And I think that’s the only way that you can tell people that you’re actually different than what’s happening in this country at this present moment.
Seeberger: I think that is true. I also think that there’s something to be said for the president’s policies, leaving—the working class are the folks who are taking it on the chin because of the president’s policies. The gutting of Medicaid, the gutting of SNAP, right?
The billionaires—the protected class, right—they’re getting these huge tax cuts. They’re getting an administration that’s sat on the Epstein files, refused to release them. The corruption, the folks who are getting richer and richer and richer—it’s working-class people who are taking it on the chin because of the president’s policies. Look at the gutting of Medicaid. Look at the gutting of SNAP, right?
Edwards: But wouldn’t working people say they’ve been taking it on the chin for 30 years?
Seeberger: Sure. I also think that they’re attuned to their cost of living being higher. I mean, at least that’s with the polls show. They understand their cost of living is worse and worse and worse. And right now you got the president out there who’s defending the status quo. The president is out there talking about affordability is a Democratic “con job.”
And I think juxtaposing that record, the policies, things that he’s saying, and the money that the president and the people around him are making hand over fist, I think is a potential powerful weapon headed into a midterm election.
Edwards: Yes. You just need the right messenger. I don’t think a billionaire on our side with that message is going to resonate with folks. I think one of the problems with politics right now is that we don’t have a lot of middle-class, working people in government because it’s almost impossible to be a working-class person and to run for office.
Seeberger: Well you worked for Michael Bloomberg back in 2020. How did you leave that campaign with that impression?
Edwards: Well, to be clear, I wasn’t chief of staff of Michael Bloomberg’s campaign. I was a press lead. OK? That’s like the lowest rung on an advanced team. Where I basically just went to the risers and told press, “Here you go. Here’s your spot.” I had zero power whatsoever.
But what I was trying to get was to build a resume so I could eventually be in a room and talk to people like you about the things that I think are important. So it was not that I thought Mike Bloomberg was the best person ever to run for president. It was just that I needed to show people that I have experience so that I could eventually get to where I wanted to be.
But I do think, again, that I’m lucky, in that I’m a person without a college degree. I come from a very working-class family. My mom and dad between them made like $50,000 a year.
Seeberger: Where are you from?
Edwards: From just outside Detroit, Michigan, called Warren, Michigan.
Edwards: And so the fact that I’m in this room talking to people like you about things that are important to me is truly a miracle and, I think, an American dream that is slipping away from more and more people.
But, again, I think it’s important that if we’re going to talk about these things, we have to have people who can actually understand what it means to not have. The anxiety of lack is such a specific feeling that unless you know what it means to not know if you’re going to be able to eat today, if you’re going to be able to pay for your gas today—anyone can talk about the fact that you don’t have enough. It’s a different thing to know what it feels like when you don’t have enough.
And I think we need messengers that understand. Like AOC (D-NY), I think, is great. Of course, she obviously, she was a bartender. She understands what it means to work. To really work.
Seeberger: If you’ve had to divide up the pieces of your DiGiorno pizza into quarters—
Seeberger: —so you can stretch your meals for the week, there may be a Democratic Party looking for you.
Seeberger: Well, I’m curious, you talked about your family, you talked about where you come from. We are headed into Thanksgiving over the course of the next few days. I think a lot of folks, especially coming off of what may have been heated conversations from last Thanksgiving on the heels of a presidential election, may be sweating bullets about talking politics with their family members.
What sort of takeaways—I saw recently you did a conversation and you mentioned that your family has different political beliefs, some members of your family have different political beliefs than you. How should folks be thinking about having conversations about politics, conversations about what’s going on in the country, in people’s lives, as they prepare to step toward the Thanksgiving dinner table?
Edwards: Well, I think first off, I don’t think you should go into these things wanting to have a fight.
Edwards: And I really think we have been set up in this culture through algorithms, through the leader of our country, that everyone thinks that either someone’s going to win or someone’s going to lose. And I think listening is a very powerful tool that not a lot of people use anymore.
And just because someone says something that you disagree with to your core, doesn’t mean that the person saying it is a bad person or is out there to get you or wants to hurt you. And I think—actually I know—that a problem we have on the left is, and my mom has said this, is that—she’s very MAGA, and she says, “I don’t judge anyone for what they believe on the left. It’s not what I want for the country, but I don’t judge you.” She’s like, “I constantly feel judged because I voted a different way.”
I think if we can somehow remove that judgment and see each other as Americans or as family, as friends, it’s a step towards the right direction. We can’t live in a society where we see everyone as the enemy. That’s what Donald Trump wants, by the way.
Seeberger: Yeah. We won’t have a democracy if we do.
Edwards: The more divided we are, the easier we are to conquer. It’s not a new idea. And I’m sure there’s a lot of people—I mean, when I posted about this, “Oh, so you’re fine with your mom being a Nazi?” It’s like, come on. Come on.
Edwards: My mom’s a Nazi?
Edwards: Yeah, come on. I love my mom.
Edwards: I don’t agree with her on much of anything when it comes to politics, but I’ll tell you what, she was one of the first people to help me with my YouTube channel. Because that’s where she gets her news, for better or worse. So she understood the platform much more than I did when I first started.
She didn’t do that because she thought that I had these great liberal ideas. She did it because she loved me. Whatever that is, I want more of that in our country. I want less of the fighting.
Now, I hate Donald Trump. I know you’re not supposed to hate people. I hate him. I hate what he is done to people. But I do not hate the people who voted for him. And I think that’s hard for people to hear, but I actually don’t think we’re going to get anywhere closer to a party, the Democratic Party, that is a truly majority party, unless we can figure out a way to bring people in rather than push them out.
Seeberger: Speaking of that, I think that there has been a lot of recognition over the course of the past year that hating Donald Trump is not going to be enough to build that majority party in this country.
Edwards: No, I mean, we already learned that in 2024.
Seeberger: Yeah, we’ve already learned that. But that means that you have to offer an alternative vision, right?
Seeberger: You have to have ideas that actually speak to the concerns that the American people say that they have.
The folks who follow you, who you hear from—what are the issues that you think Democrats could have the best chance of resonating with some of the folks that you were talking about who may not be already bought into the coalition but on the periphery, are folks who Democrats should be trying to pull in?
Edwards: Well, I do think most people have a sense that this situation we find ourselves in right now is rigged. This is a rigged deal we’re in.
Edwards: Now, I don’t know what that policy looks like. You’re the smart ones that understand the policy. I don’t know how we get to an unrigged economy that re-rigs it for the working people.
But I personally believe that if you speak to the people who understand that things aren’t getting better—they’re not getting better. People work more than they ever have before, and they can afford less. That’s just not how it should be.
We have AI now coming in, and it’s probably going to take a lot of jobs. And what’s the solution for that? AI is completely unregulated. I thought we would be smarter with how we dealt with social media, where we just said, “OK, Mark Zuckerberg, I’m sure you’re going to handle it just fine.”
Edwards: And we’re handling AI the same way—AI, a much more dangerous tool than Instagram.
Edwards: So I don’t necessarily know what the policy proposals are. I think smart people are going to have to figure that out. But I do know that is where the movement is heading. And either you want to be a Democrat leading that movement or there’s going to be a Republican. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s talking about AI.
Edwards: She’s talking about AI and how we need to regulate it. Now, I’m pro progress and technology, but technology that is unguided can lead us to very dangerous places.
Seeberger: Yep. Keith, I am curious to get your perspective as somebody who’s had tremendous success as a content creator. And another learning from 2024 was not just that hating Donald Trump is not enough, but also that we have to reach people who may not be following traditional news, right? They may not be watching “60 Minutes.” They’re probably certainly not watching “60 Minutes.” They may not be tuning into their local news. But they may be getting some information in nontraditional spaces, if they’re seeking out information at all.
What should Democrats be doing to reach people in these nontraditional spaces?
Edwards: Well, they should show up there. I don’t think they should become them. I think it’s great Gavin Newsom’s trying to have a podcast. I think that’s fantastic. We should definitely crowdsource as many different ideas as possible. But do I think the average member of Congress should become an influencer?
Edwards: No, I do not. But should the average member of Congress be in touch with people who speak to millions of folks? Absolutely. And so, you know, I speak to, give or take, 10 million people a month, every month.
Edwards: And I don’t do it by talking about—if you were to just see my thumbnails and titles, I think you would be surprised by what’s actually behind them. But it’s not all rage bait. It’s not all policy driven. What I try to do is talk to people about what’s happening as if they’re talking to a friend. And so that seems to have worked. The test case for that seems to be there. And so I think, though, for members of Congress, it always has been a communications job. It really is. I mean, yeah, sure—
Seeberger: And if you’re not communicating, you’re not doing the job.
Edwards: Yeah. And so, sure, you’ve got to vote on legislation, but really you’re listening to constituents and you’re communicating to them what’s happening and why it’s important. So that’s always been the job.
So I just think that they do need to find a way to—Ro Khanna (D-CA) does a great job at this. He will talk to anyone. I have seen it. He’s talked to people with 3,000 followers, and he’s talked to MeidasTouch. Or he will be on “Real Time with Bill Maher.” I think he’s been on there.
Seeberger: He’ll go on Fox, too.
Seeberger: I mean, Democrats, you need to go everywhere.
Seeberger: You’ve got to be persuading people. You are not the majority in this country. You’ve got to go reach everybody.
Edwards: And that’s not a new idea.
Edwards: I just think the places you go are a little different now. But certainly don’t try to become the place people go to.
Seeberger: Democrats, that is your learning for the week. And for that I will be thanking you at my Thanksgiving table this week, Keith Edwards.
We try to end these conversations on a positive note when we can. I am curious, it’s dark times right now, but what gives you hope in this moment?
Edwards: I think the elections were quite hopeful.
Edwards: I don’t know about you, but I was libbed up, baby. That night, I was like, I understand why Donald Trump tweets in all caps. I was doing that all night, and it felt kind of good.
Seeberger: But I mean, Abigail Spanberger (D-VA) winning by over 15 points—that’s a lot.
Seeberger: In Virginia! That’s a lot, folks.
Edwards: That’s a lot. Now, it’s because things are awful.
Edwards: And I just hope that we can just carry that momentum into next November. I hope we look back on this moment and say, “Wow, it could have been really bad, but we took control of it.” But I think we are really in a very specific moment right now. So anyone listening right now—and I’m sure people listening now are not the type of people who would tune out.
Edwards: But certainly, this is a time to do as much as you can. And if you don’t feel hope, then that means you’re not doing enough. And so do something that makes you feel like you’re making a small difference. It doesn’t have to be like running for office. It could literally be—how I started is joining my Democratic club, my local Democratic club. And I started to volunteer, knocking on doors for candidates. And it made me feel like I had a little bit of control over what was happening.
And so if every single person who is listening, or every single person who wants to see a change in this country, did one small thing to make that change happen, it’d be a very powerful experience for this country. So I’m hopeful by what we saw. I’m hopeful we can take that with added action and make a huge change next November.
Seeberger: I think that is going to be a huge part of how Democrats are going to be able to reclaim power, is the power of each individual person stepping up, giving an hour of their time to talk to their neighbors, sharing a video on social media, opening up their pocketbook. Realize it’s tough times, but think that is going to be a real difference maker for Democrats as we head into a midterm election year next year.
Edwards: And if you want a better Democratic Party, this is primary season two.
Seeberger: Primary season two.
Edwards: So I think that’s also very hopeful because I think we’re about to see a big change in what it means to be a Democrat, what a Democrat looks like. That’s exciting.
Seeberger: We will be staying tuned and watching what happens. Keith Edwards, thanks so much for joining us on “The Tent.”
Edwards: Thanks for having me.
Seeberger: All right, folks, that’s going to do it for us today. Please go back and check out previous episodes.
Here to break down their Thanksgiving traditions with me is our senior producer, Kelly McCoy. Kelly, happy Thanksgiving.
Kelly McCoy: Happy Thanksgiving, Colin. I can’t believe we’re here already.
Seeberger: Yeah, I feel like 2025 has been both a lifetime—
Seeberger: —and also just started.
McCoy: Someone said, “I’ll talk to you in December,” and I said, “What?”
Seeberger: Yeah. I can’t believe it. Do you have big plans this year? Do you do certain things every Thanksgiving? What do you got?
McCoy: Yeah. So I’ll be getting together with some of my family. My parents have a lovely little house out in Bethany Beach, which we’ll be going to this year.
McCoy: Which is fun in the winter. I mean, I prefer it in summer, obviously.
McCoy: But winter is a nice second. Some of my hot takes around Thanksgiving: I think the food is exceptionally mid.
Seeberger: Yes. You heard it here, folks.
McCoy: You heard it here, folks. My favorite part of our meal is we do—my mom makes this amazing brie, and then we put chutney on top of it, roasted with a little croissant action.
Seeberger: Oh my God. Now you’re talking.
McCoy: It is so good. But notice, folks, that I’m not mentioning the mashed potatoes, the turkey, the green beans. If you’re a green bean casserole person—
Seeberger: I don’t mind a green bean casserole.
McCoy: OK. Your South is showing, Colin.
Seeberger: Yeah. If you have to put a stick of butter on your dish in order to make it taste good, folks, it’s just not that great.
McCoy: Yeah. Now, Colin, I know that you have seemingly an emerging tradition that you should share with our listeners. Because it sounded quite tasty to me.
Seeberger: You know, I do. Last year for the first time, it was just us, and we decided, you know what? It’s been a crazy year. Not feeling like cooking. And we went out and had a really nice buffet lunch. And it was fantastic.
Seeberger: The food was good. Also, my child was under 3, and she got to eat free.
Seeberger: So we had to get our free Thanksgiving buffet meal, which for her just consisted of a bunch of desserts.
McCoy: That’s the way to go.
Seeberger: Yeah. I mean, I can’t judge. And so not only was it easy, there was no cleanup, but also. I just gorged on sushi and lobster and crab legs. And it was so, so good. Very non-Americana Thanksgiving.
McCoy: You know, we’re a melting pot, Colin.
McCoy: You celebrated in the day, regardless.
McCoy: Well, that would be my—I love sushi. Love, love, love, sushi.
McCoy: So we should have a holiday dedicated specifically to that type of cuisine. I’m glad that you’ve introduced that to lexicon.
Seeberger: These hot takes, these cold takes—folks, we want to know what you think about them. Let us know your Thanksgiving traditions. Wishing you all a very happy holiday. Hope you get to spend some time with some friends and family and get some much-needed rest. And we’ll talk to you next week.
Seeberger: “The Tent” is a podcast from the Center for American Progress Action Fund. It’s hosted by me, Colin Seeberger. Muggs Leone is our digital producer, Kelly McCoy is our supervising producer, and Mishka Espey is our booking producer. Hai Phan, Olivia Mowry and Toni Pandolfo are our video team.
Views expressed by guests of “The Tent” are their own, and interviews are not endorsements of a guest’s perspectives. You can find us on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.