Daniella Gibbs Léger: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to “The Tent,” your place for politics, policy and progress. I’m Daniella Gibbs Léger, and today I’ll be joined by a very special guest: my friend, former colleague, and a proud alum of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, Delaware’s newest Congresswoman Sarah McBride (D).
Because Rep. McBride is so dynamic, and because we’re in such high stakes in the fight to save the programs that the American people rely on, like Medicaid, we’re dedicating this entire episode to my chat with Sarah. She has quickly become a strong leader in the progressive movement during a time of unprecedented threats, precisely because she is so focused on figuring out the path forward for the Democratic Party. She’s not only fighting like hell to stop Trump’s “big, beautiful bill,” but she’s also working to build a better future for the country and to deliver an agenda of tangible positive change.
I met Sarah way back in the day—aka about 10 years ago—when she was working on the LGBT Progress team here at the Center of American Progress Action Fund, and she had the same spirit vigor and values that continued to fuel her success in Congress. I hope that you enjoy our conversation as much as I did.
Gibbs Léger: Congresswoman Sarah McBride is Delaware’s representative in the United States House of Representatives and is the first openly transgender person to be elected to Congress. Prior to her race in 2024, she served in the Delaware State Senate. Previously, she worked for Delaware’s late Attorney General Beau Biden and served in the Obama White House. She was a national spokesperson for the Human Rights Campaign and was a campaign and communications manager with the LGBT Research and Communications Project at the Center for American Progress.
It is my distinct pleasure to be joined by Congresswoman Sarah McBride. Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us on “The Tent.”
Rep. Sarah McBride: It is wonderful to be back with my CAP family. It’s great to see you, Daniella.
Gibbs Léger: It’s great to see you, too. So, I want start—before you found your way to becoming student body president at American University and eventually to our offices here at CAP Action, you were a kid in Delaware growing up in Wilmington, looking up to your senator, a man by the name of Joe Biden.
Congresswoman, over the weekend, President Biden shared some tough news with all of us about his cancer diagnosis. He wrote the forward to your memoir, in which he discussed the loss of your husband to cancer. Can you talk a little bit about what Joe Biden means to you?
McBride: Well, I know that I—alongside millions, perhaps billions, around the world —am heartbroken at the diagnosis that former President Biden received last week and are praying for him and praying for the Biden family, praying that he has a speedy recovery.
Joe Biden has been my senator, my vice president, my president, and throughout it all as a Delawarean, he’s also been a role model to me. In so many ways, my service in Congress is possible because of the Biden family. I got to know Joe Biden first as a public figure, but then personally through the eyes of his son Beau, who I worked for and who was a mentor of mine before Beau passed away from cancer in 2015.
And the thing about Joe Biden is what you see is what you get. He is as loving and big-hearted in private as he is in public. And his and his family’s support for me has meant the world to me. And so I am grateful for his service. I am grateful for his friendship. I’m grateful for his support. And I’m grateful that he is getting world-class treatment that I know he believes every person in this country should be able to access.
Cancer has touched his family multiple times. He has dedicated so much of his life to finding a cure for cancer, and I know he will bring that same energy to his own treatment. And it’s our job to send energy and love and prayers his way as he does it. But I’ve been thinking a lot about him in particular the last couple of days after the news, and I know Delawareans are holding him in their hearts right now.
Gibbs Léger: Indeed they are, as many people in the country are. Thank you so much for sharing that with us.
So, let’s shift our focus to Capitol Hill. Because in a series of late-night sessions, House Republicans have been trying to ram through a reconciliation bill that would unleash the largest cuts to Medicaid and SNAP [the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program] in history in order to fund tax breaks for billionaires.
So, give us the view from the House floor. What is your lay of the land right now?
McBride: Well, it’s a s— show, to put it bluntly.
Gibbs Léger: There you go!
McBride: As you mentioned, in the dead of night—not just tonight, or, I guess when people are listening to this, perhaps last night—not just Sunday night, but last week through marathon midnight hearings, Republicans have recklessly and chaotically put together one of the most heartless bills that I have ever seen in my life: Legislation that would, as you mentioned, not only result in the largest cut in Medicaid in American history, but the largest evisceration of health care in American history, period. The largest cut in SNAP, which provides food to hungry kids and families across this country, in our country’s history.
It is a ruthlessly cruel budget, and it cuts these programs all to just partially, just partially, pay for tax cuts for billionaires and major corporations. This is an appalling betrayal of the promise that this president made to voters to protect their health care, to lower costs facing working people. And my colleagues in the House Democratic Caucus are united in opposing this reconciliation bill. It’s potentially coming before us this week. But who knows? Because this heartless budget is not heartless enough for some members of the Republican caucus. And there are some members in swing districts who are also nervous because they know that cutting health care for 10-plus million Americans is not a particularly popular proposal, as well as being a dangerous proposal.
And so we’ll see where they get as they seek to reconcile their seemingly irreconcilable differences on this reconciliation package. Say that five times fast. But I’m not going to hold my breath that Republican politicians are going to stick to their principles or find courage. And if they cave, the swing district members cave, if their caucus gets this through, they’re going to have to answer for it come November.
Gibbs Léger: So, you talked about the middle-of-the-night dealings with this, and they are rushing to get this through. They’re hardly holding real oversight hearings. It hasn’t had independent analysis. Seems like they’re not waiting for a CBO [Congressional Budget Office], a full CBO score.
So, I mean, I think I know, but like, why are they rushing this through right now? And do the members even know what they’re voting for? Do they know what’s in this bill?
McBride: No. No, they don’t know what’s in this bill. I mean, first off, even if it was all out in public and CBO scored and they’d all read it, they clearly wouldn’t understand what’s in this bill. Because they don’t care. They just want to give Donald Trump his, quote, “one big, beautiful bill.”
But they certainly don’t know what’s in this bill, because it’s impossible to know what’s in this bill right now. There have been backroom deals and promises of amendments to far-right-wing members that no one’s willing to explicitly articulate and say out loud until they’re filed, it’s filed with limited time left.
You know, I’m usually not a process person. I usually don’t clutch my pearls at process. I find it to be an easy out in an argument because of people not wanting to actually address the merits. We’re obviously pushing back on the lack of merits of this legislation. But this process is so egregious, it is so rushed, on one of the single most dangerously impactful bills that Congress has considered in my lifetime, that one can’t help but be outraged by the fact that this bill is moving so quickly and moving so often in the dead of night because Republicans know how unpopular it is.
They don’t want the American people to see what they are doing in their reconciliation package, the lives that they are devastating with this proposal. And it’s partly our job as House Democrats and the job of our allies and activists and advocates and everyday citizens across the country to make sure that they don’t get away with these midnight tactics, that they don’t get away with trying to eviscerate health care for millions of Americans at 1, 2, 3 a.m. in the morning.
So we’ve got to shine a light. We’ve got to shine a light on this proposal and the harmful consequences of it. That’s what we’ll continue to do, even if it gets through the House. The Senate and the House have to pass the exact same bill before it gets to the president. And so if it gets through the House, the fight is not over. We’ll have to continue to sound the alarm so that senators feel the pressure.
And look, maybe they never are able to come to the same place, the House and the Senate, on this. And therefore, we have a chance—just like we did in 2017 when they tried to repeal the ACA [Affordable Care Act].We have the ability to stop this if we lift our voices, if we fight back, and if we mobilize a movement of Americans—Democrats, independents, and Republicans. Because there are people who voted for this president in the last election who are looking at this and saying, this is not what they voted for. If we can mobilize them, we have a chance to stop this. And we’ve got to take every day, every second, every hour that we have to do it.
Gibbs Léger: So, let’s dig into what this bill means for the people of Delaware. As we have discussed, these cuts are depraved—the largest Medicaid cuts in history, as we said—all to pay for tax giveaways to the wealthy. I know that you’ve been in the weeds of this text. To the extent that you can, to the extent that it’s available, could you share some of your takeaways about how this bill could hurt Americans, but specifically Delawareans?
McBride: Yeah. Well, I really want to focus on the health care part of this bill. I mean, obviously the largest cut in SNAP funding in the program’s history would be devastating for families, for kids, people who are hungry already and who would be left to fend for themselves if these cuts were passed.
But the health care provision of this proposal is particularly cruel and dangerous and, I think for a lot of people, very confusing. Because it’s not just a baseline cut in funding; it’s got several provisions that people might think sound good at first glance, but the marketing by Republicans betray what the proposals actually do.
So, one really harmful provision in this proposal is essentially a paperwork requirement. They call it a work requirement. It’s a paperwork requirement on Medicaid-eligible individuals. They’re trying to import the worst parts of the private health care system—needless bureaucracy, excessive paperwork—into Medicaid in order to create a program that is so confusing and difficult to navigate for patients that some don’t get coverage, that others are pushed off their coverage, and that others aren’t able to get the care that they need.
And it’s so blatantly an attempt to push people off because these work requirements, these paperwork requirements, they don’t solve a problem. People on Medicaid are already working. The over, over, overwhelming majority of people on Medicaid are already working. And two, it doesn’t save money, because as they kick people off coverage—which yeah, you reduce costs if you kick people off—that cost savings, that cruel cost savings, is erased by the increased cost on Medicaid programs of administering these paperwork requirements. And so this part of the bill, it has the risk of shoving millions and millions of people off of health care with needless paperwork and bureaucracy.
Two, the bill, for many people who get coverage under Medicaid, the bill imposes what is essentially a tax on patients when they’re getting health care. Because it now requires, in a whole host of areas of care, Medicaid-covered individuals—in many cases who are living just above the poverty line—to pay out-of-pocket expenses, something that folks who are on Medicaid, who are just living above the poverty line, who are struggling through serious illnesses, certainly don’t have in this case, what could amount to, over the course of treatment, hundreds of dollars to pay out to get that care. They’re imposing out-of-pocket expenses and costs. They’re increasing the cost of health care for millions of Medicaid-covered Americans.
And then finally, a third thing I want to highlight in this bill around health care is that there is essentially a backdoor abortion ban in this bill. The legislation—for a long time, federal funding has not been able to be used to cover and pay for abortion services. This bill takes that policy and puts it into hyperdrive, because it cuts off funding to family planning clinics that provide abortion care.
So it’s not just saying federal money can’t be used to pay for abortion care. But let’s say you’re a family planning clinic that provides abortion care, but also provides contraception, provides critical care through OB-GYNs, to women and pregnant women and new moms. They would cut off all their Medicaid funding—
McBride: —if that clinic does abortion care. And in some cases, that would mean for a patient in a rural community, that they have no access to abortion care in their area. Because either that family planning clinic would shut down because Medicaid is a critical funding source for them, or they would stop providing abortion care. It’s one of those two options. And so the consequences, when you dive into this bill, are vast across various areas of care, and for many Americans, deadly.
Gibbs Léger: You know, in the face of all that, I have to say, it has been inspiring to see advocates descend on Capitol Hill and literally put their bodies on the line, in some cases, getting arrested, to defend health care against these cruel cuts that you’ve mentioned.
Can you share some stories from advocates that you’ve talked to? And, as a longtime advocate yourself, do you have any tips for our listeners on how to push back effectively against this disaster of a reconciliation bill? A lot of folks out there are hungry for ways to fight back, and they feel like they don’t know where to plug in.
McBride: Well, first off, what I have learned as an advocate is that personal stories aren’t a magic wand, but they are the closest thing that we have to a magic wand. When we recognize that the political is fundamentally personal, that policy is fundamentally personal, it changes conversations. It changes the political dynamics. It changes the perception of a proposal.
And we saw it, I already mentioned, in 2017 when we saved the ACA. It was because of advocates. It was because of disability activists protesting at the Capitol. It was because of people sharing their stories and talking about what repeal of the ACA would and could mean for them.
And we’re already seeing really powerful stories and voices shared to our office and to offices across the Capitol. We’re seeing advocates and activists showing up. We’re seeing disability activists make clear their opposition to this proposal at committee hearings on Capitol Hill.
And I’ll never forget as this reconciliation package was just starting to move forward, a Delawarean who has several different medical conditions, who relies on Medicaid for coverage, she was in my office. And she looked me directly in the eyes, and with tears in her eyes just stated, “If they cut Medicaid, I will die.” And that three-word sentence—”I will die”—has been uttered to me by so many Delawareans who rely on Medicaid for lifesaving and life-sustaining coverage.
A mom in Newark who shared with me that her daughter who has a condition where she can’t eat food without getting sick—but the treatment for that Medicaid coverage covers, makes her life possible—similarly shared with me that her daughter would die if Medicaid is gutted in ways that we are seeing proposed right now. And we need to lift up those voices. We need advocates and activists and everyday citizens to share their stories with their elected officials, we need people—and I think this is one of the most important things in this moment because look, I got a lot of folks in my district, in my state—I represent the entirety of Delaware—who will say to me, “We’re so glad that you’re there for us, and we know you’re with us on this. What else can we do? Because we’re calling you and reinforcing that you’re doing the right thing, but obviously, there’s more that needs to be done.”
And my answer to that, and I have to be careful about how I talk about it since where I’m sitting, is everyone knows people outside of their congressional district. And you probably know people in congressional districts that are represented by Republicans. Our conversations with our networks are critical, are key in this moment, to make sure that we are mobilizing that mass movement that I mentioned earlier against this slash-and-burn budget.
Gibbs Léger: So we’ve talked a lot about pushing back on the truly awful plans that Republicans are offering, but how should Democrats, progressives, move forward? You stressed that your main goal in Congress—and, before that, your main goal in the Delaware State Senate—is to make life more affordable for Americans.
So, how should Democrats go about developing an agenda that lowers costs, boosts wages, and makes it easier for people to raise a family in this country?
McBride: When I was in the Delaware State Senate, I was proud to bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass the largest ongoing investment in Medicaid in our state’s history to improve and expand coverage, to recruit more providers to Delaware, to make it more accessible and to lower costs for patients by having a larger health care workforce.
I was proud to pass paid family and medical leave so that workers would no longer have to choose between their health and their paycheck, between their family and their job. And I was proud that one of the first major bills that I voted on in the Delaware State Senate that we passed was a $15 minimum wage.
You’re right: It’s not enough for us to be just against things. We have to be for good policy that will make a real, tangible difference in our constituents’ lives. It’s why we should be saying from here to kingdom come that you vote for us and we will pass a bill to raise your wage. We will pass a bill to increase the minimum wage in this country. It’s why I believe that improving our care economy so that everyone can get the care and support that they need is so vital in this moment. We’ve got a 1950s care infrastructure for a 2025 workforce. We need paid family and medical leave at the federal level so that workers can start a family, can get health care treatment, can care for a loved one who’s getting health care treatment without having to sacrifice their financial security. We need to have affordable quality child care for every family so that parents don’t have to leave the workforce because it’s cheaper to give up your entire income than it is to pay for child care—if you can even get a spot in a child care facility right now.
And so, these types of policies—along with historic investments that I would like to see in housing, to increase the accessibility and affordability of housing across the country—that has to be at the heart of our Democratic agenda, should we win back the majority. I am so passionate about these policies because I believe they’re the right thing to do. But also, because I know they speak to the issues that I keep hearing from my constituents that housing is too expensive; that rent and mortgages both are too expensive; that they’re having to leave the workforce if they have kids; that people are getting struggling in the sandwich generation as they try to have kids and care for aging parents all at the same time; and that people need to get paid better.
We’ve seen some progress over the last couple of years in our economy, but that progress is not keeping up with the rising cost of living. And so we need to step in, and we need to pass a much higher minimum wage than what we have. Index it to inflation so it keeps going up, so that people can have a fair wage and good benefits and a home that they’re able to buy.
Gibbs Léger: Well, congresswoman, I can see why the people of Delaware are so proud of you and are so happy that you are there in Congress fighting for them. I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us on “The Tent” today.
McBride: Thank you so much, Daniella. It’s always good to see you. Thanks for having me.
Gibbs Léger: Thank you. Great to see you, too.
Gibbs Léger: Well, that’s going to do it for us folks. Be sure to go back and check out previous episodes. Before we go, Colin, thoughts on the interview?
Seeberger: I mean, Congresswoman McBride is so fierce. She’s such a force. And it’s exactly the kind of leadership that I think the American people are looking for in this moment, right?
I mean, Republicans on Capitol Hill are talking about making the largest cuts to Medicaid and SNAP in American history. And as was referenced in the interview, people will die. Nearly 200 people in Delaware every single year will die if these Medicaid cuts go through.
So I thought her remarks were just incredibly powerful and I think really responsive to the moment we find ourselves in.
Gibbs Léger: I agree. She is so wonderful. I’m such a huge fan. And I’ve known her—obviously, we talked about—for a long time.
Gibbs Léger: And it’s just so weird. Like, I have a friend who’s in Congress.
Gibbs Léger: It’s so strange, so strange. What else is strange but wonderful—you like that segue?—the New York Knicks.
Seeberger: Oh, it feels like—
Gibbs Léger: Here we are.
Seeberger: —1995 all over again. Right?
Gibbs Léger: I mean, listen, it’s been a long time.
Gibbs Léger: A long, long time since we’ve made it to the Eastern Conference championship. So I’m super excited. We are playing Indiana, who have crushed our hopes and dreams many a time before. So I am hoping that we take on the ghost of Reggie Miller and we beat the Pacers.
Seeberger: Well, we’re going to have to get you a new shirt, because you’re rocking—
Seeberger: —Pacers colors, right?
Gibbs Léger: No, I reject that. This is not exactly that color. No. False.
Seeberger: Well, I’m also keeping tabs on hockey. The Dallas Stars, my preferred hockey team, have advanced to the Western Conference finals. So thankfully, I no longer have to watch games that are starting at 9:30 at night—
Seeberger: —and yeah, can enjoy an 8 p.m. start time.
Gibbs Léger: Much more civilized.
Seeberger: Yes, much more demure. Also, finding so much joy in the last week by watching the new season of “The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.”
Gibbs Léger: I know, I need to get on this train.
Seeberger: You’ve got to hop on it, Daniella.
Gibbs Léger: I know, I know. OK, so like, what’s so exciting about it?
Seeberger: I mean, it’s just ridiculous, which is the perfect escape from our ridiculous reality we live in, in the year of our Lord 2025. But I think the thing that I did not know was in the group “MomTok,” I guess the new hit recreational activity these days, rather than going to couples therapy, is going to ketamine therapy.
Gibbs Léger: What is that?
Seeberger: Yeah. So there’s a couple on the show that are apparently separated, and rather than going to couples counseling to work on their problems, they go to get ketamine therapy and basically tune out for an hour. And then that’s supposed to help them be able to talk openly and honestly with each other. You don’t even know how to begin.
Gibbs Léger: I don’t even know how to process that. Like, that is some crazy stuff.
Gibbs Léger: It’s bonkers.
Gibbs Léger: And they’re paying good money, I assume, for this.
Seeberger: Yeah, I would think so. I mean—
Gibbs Léger: And it’s legal?
Seeberger: I can’t speak from experience, right? I know, I know.
Gibbs Léger: I’m so confused.
Gibbs Léger: You know what, God be with them on their journey.
Seeberger: To each their own. To each their own.
Gibbs Léger: Exactly. Well, we’ve got to talk about the news that Swifties around the world woke up to this morning, which was a single, potentially, from a forthcoming “Reputation (Taylor’s Version).”
Seeberger: I’ve been waiting so, so long.
Seeberger: And, yeah, she delivered the goods. We got our first listen of “Look What you Made Me Do (Taylor’s Version),” and it did not disappoint.
Gibbs Léger: I’m really excited for this album to come out because I think this is probably one of my favorite albums of hers. People know, I’ve been on a journey—
Gibbs Léger: —with Ms. Taylor Alison Swift.
Gibbs Léger: I am now a Swiftie. I fully admit that. It’s fine.
Seeberger: We’ve won you over.
Gibbs Léger: You have. But just, the internet, the memes, the clown faces—people are like, “It’s not coming anytime soon.” No, the AMAs [American Music Awards] are this weekend.
Seeberger: I didn’t have that on my cal.
Gibbs Léger: Some music award is happening.
Gibbs Léger: So, we’ll see.
Seeberger: We’ll keep our eyes peeled. I am also excited for this because my daughter, she’s cool jamming to Taylor Swift in the car, but she’s a little bit more of like a “Lover,” “Midnights,” “1989” girly. And finally have gotten her on “Reputation,” and she is now really, over the course of the last week or so, locked in on “Reputation.”
Seeberger: “Delicate,” her new favorite song.
Gibbs Léger: That’s a great song.
Seeberger: It is a very good song. But I feel like this could be good omens for an imminent release of “Reputation (Taylor’s Version).”
Gibbs Léger: Well, here we go. From your daughter’s taste—
Gibbs Léger: —to Taylor Swift’s ears.
Gibbs Léger: Let’s get it done.
Seeberger: Let’s get it done.
Gibbs Léger: All right, folks. That’s it for us. Take care of yourselves, and we’ll talk to you next week.
Gibbs Léger: “The Tent” is a podcast from the Center for American Progress Action Fund. It’s hosted by me, Daniella Gibbs Léger, and co-hosted by Colin Seeberger. Kelly McCoy is our supervising producer, Mishka Espey is our booking producer, and Muggs Leone is our digital producer. Jacob Jordan is our writer. Hai Phan, Olivia Mowry, and Toni Pandolfo are our video team.
Views expressed by guests of “The Tent” are their own, and interviews are not endorsements of a guest’s perspectives. You can find us on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.