Daniella Gibbs Léger: Hey everyone, welcome back to “The Tent,” your place for politics, policy, and progress. I’m Daniella Gibbs Léger.
Colin Seeberger: And I’m Colin Seeberger. Daniella, you can’t deny it anymore.
Seeberger: It’s officially fall.
Gibbs Léger: It is. So everybody, bring out your pumpkin spice lattes, bring out your big sweaters and your big scarves like Lenny Kravitz.
Seeberger: Drink your pumpkin-flavored beer.
Gibbs Léger: Exactly. Make pumpkin bread—
Gibbs Léger: —maybe some pumpkin scones if we’re being adventurous.
Seeberger: We went out and bought a few dozen pumpkins this past weekend, much to my husband’s chagrin, who—when I rolled up, we opened the trunk and pumpkins just started falling out of the trunk.
Gibbs Léger: Like a sitcom, Colin.
Gibbs Léger: Well I am excited to hopefully not have my pumpkins be eaten by deer and squirrels this year.
Seeberger: That would be nice.
Gibbs Léger: It would be. Well, acknowledging that the change of seasons is underway and I am succumbing to fall, I heard you had a great conversation this week.
Seeberger: That’s right, I did. I talked to Jessica Mackler, president of EMILYs List, about how the fall of Roe v. Wadeactually has been changing our political landscape and how it might impact the results that we get in the upcoming elections.
Gibbs Léger: Well with less than six weeks to the election, it sounds like a really important conversation.
But first, we got to get to some news.
Seeberger: We do. And speaking of the election this week, Vice President Harris has been rolling out core pieces of her economic agenda. In a speech this week, she built on her existing economic plans with proposals to incentivize domestic manufacturing and rolled out enthusiastic support for policies that will help lower costs for families—things like making child care more affordable and ensuring families have access to paid leave.
And what’s more, she’s explained why she supports these policies: She grew up as the daughter of a single, immigrant mother who worked hard to gain a foothold in the middle class, just like her daughter would as an adult. Because of that upbringing, Vice President Harris knows that it’s tough for families to get by, to be able to pay the bills and save something at the end of the month. It’s why she believes policymakers should focus on commonsense solutions that are really about rewarding hard work and creating more opportunities for Americans to get a fair shot themselves. And it’s why she’s always been and continues to be laser focused on core pocketbook issues that really matter to families.
Still, she’s made it clear that there’s more that must be done, which is why she’s outlining these specific, real tangible steps she’ll take if elected president.
Gibbs Léger: Yeah, and it just goes to show why forecasters from Moody’s and Goldman Sachs say the vice president’s plans are better for the economy and more fiscally responsible than Donald Trump’s plans.
Forecasters have found his proposals would increase the deficit at least five times more than Vice President Harris’ plans would. And they’re not only bad for our economy overall, they’re bad for individual Americans. In an interview over the weekend with Sharyl Attkisson, Trump was unable to answer questions about how he would reduce prices.
Instead, he went off on a tangent about how Vice President Harris couldn’t have answered that question. Now, when you’re dodging questions that hard, it’s because you know you have something to hide. And in this case, I think he’s well aware that his plans would increase the cost of living. I mean, even his own economists have said this.
Gibbs Léger: And even his speech in Georgia this week, where he’s supposed to unveil more details, he was incredibly light on specifics, other than vowing to yet again cut taxes for corporations even further than he already did and repeating his same tired tariff proposals—which we already know would drive up the very inflation that he’s promising to tackle, would lead to an economic downturn, and would cost a typical family nearly $4,000 a year.
They also risk retaliatory tariffs from other countries, which could drive up prices even further. Economists expect inflation to be just 2 percent next year, but these Trump plans would bring that up to 3.7 percent.
Seeberger: That’s almost double.
Gibbs Léger: Exactly. It’s clear that Trump doesn’t have a plan to build up the middle class. He is throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. But we don’t need spaghetti; we need solutions.
Seeberger: That’s right, Daniella. And speaking of MAGA Republicans, not only can they not be trusted on the economy, apparently they can’t even be trusted with their own internet access.
Gibbs Léger: Why whatever do you mean, Colin?
Seeberger: Oh, well, you know, if you’re living under a rock and you haven’t heard, CNN reported last week that Mark Robinson, the MAGA lieutenant governor of North Carolina, was out actively posting on an online pornography forum about how he’s a Black Nazi who believes that slavery should be brought back.
There’s some other stuff he posted on the forum that we can’t say on our show. We are family friendly here at “The Tent.” But you can go look it up if you’re so inclined. It was absolutely just bonkers stuff, which I think is why a lot of people’s first reaction was to laugh at the CNN report. But we really need to remember that Robinson is currently serving in office—
Seeberger: —and is also a candidate for governor in one of the nation’s most consequential political states, all while still having the support of the party’s nominee for president. It just shows how deeply depraved the Republican Party has become.
Donald Trump and North Carolina’s Republican leaders embraced Mark Robinson for years, knowing the lies and absolute craziness that’s come out of his mouth for decades—things like inciting violence and disrespecting women. Even before CNN’s shocking report, Robinson has said on the record that transgender women should be arrested. He’s denied the Holocaust. He’s pushed antisemitic conspiracy theories, suggested the government and federal law enforcement should be violently opposed, and pushed policies that would hurt North Carolinians, like his call to ban all abortion, no exceptions, even as early as zero weeks. This is what this guy has talked about.
And despite all of this, Donald Trump has called Mark Robinson MLK “on steroids” and said he’s a good man who should be cherished. It’s bananas.
Gibbs Léger: It’s absolutely appalling, but not particularly surprising, right? It’s not like this is a one-time occurrence for MAGA Republicans.
Gibbs Léger: They were totally lined up behind convicted felons, grifters, and conspiracy theorists. Trump is attached at the hip to 9/11 conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer, endorses election deniers like Kari Lake in Arizona, and relies on the counsel of people like Rep. Matt Gaetz (R) from Florida—Florida ban—who reportedly attends sex and drug parties with high school girls. This kind of behavior—
Seeberger: Oh my God, my skin just crawled.
Gibbs Léger: —right? Literally, my skin just crawled. This behavior should disqualify people from holding public office or adjacent positions of power. But to MAGA Republicans, it’s just par for the course.
And, I don’t know, maybe it has something to do with the fact that their party leader has been found liable by a jury of his peers for sexual abuse, has been indicted for stealing classified documents, and has had his businesses repeatedly caught defrauding taxpayers and consumers. So those are just a few reasons, perhaps, he’s comfortable endorsing people like Mark Robinson.
But we should also be clear that these endorsements are about power because Donald Trump wants loyalists in his party who don’t question him. He doesn’t care about the quality of their character, or their level of expertise, or if they have any of those things.
And we’ve seen time and time again how the MAGA candidates that he’s endorsed have underperformed in their races and that the MAGA brand itself is a drag on the entire party. Look no further than the 2018 midterms, the 2020 elections, the 2022 midterms—
Gibbs Léger: —and last year’s elections as proof.
Between their depraved antics and radical, out-of-touch policies, MAGA extremists are sinking their own ship. And if they want to keep doing that in one of the most important swing states in the country, they can be my guest. But I don’t think it bodes well for them in a place that was decided by a little over one point in 2020 and where this year’s election is already neck and neck.
Seeberger: You make some great points, Daniella. That’s all the time we have for today, though. If there’s anything else you’d like us to cover on the pod, hit us up on Twitter, Instagram, and Threads @TheTentPod. That’s @TheTentPod. And stick around for my interview with Jessica Mackler in just a beat.
Seeberger: Jessica Mackler is the president of EMILYs List. She previously worked on electoral strategy for the organization. Before joining EMILYs List, she served as the president of American Bridge 21st Century and worked at the DCCC (Democratic Congressional Campaigns Committee). She has a long background in campaigns and got her start at EMILYs List as a political researcher.
Jessica Mackler, thanks so much for joining us on “The Tent.”
Jessica Mackler: Thanks for having me.
Seeberger: So it’s been about two years now since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, and the landscape of reproductive rights has changed drastically. How has that legal decision had an impact on the number of women you see running for office, and why is it important for women to make their voices heard in government?
Mackler: Well we have really seen in the past two years, since the Dobbs [v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization]decision, that for women who are running for office, the fight for abortion rights is really what is driving that. That is what is getting them in the fight. That’s really similar to what we saw in 2016 in the wake of Donald Trump’s election—it was really this outrage and frustration at what was going on around them. And women were stepping up to say, “I’m going to be in this fight, and I’m going to lead the change that we can see we desperately need in this country.”
And so we’ve certainly seen that post-Dobbs. I mean, the other thing that we really see is that these women who are brought into the fight around reproductive freedom and the effort to chart a new path forward on that are really centering this in their campaigns. This is what they are talking about when they are running for office. And we’ve seen how important that is.
We’ve really seen that it is important for all candidates to be putting this front and center. We see these examples of women leaders and women candidates talking about this on the campaign trail or in their elected office and how much that matters. And it really underscores the imperative that there is right now around women’s leadership.
We think about what it means to have someone like Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) leading the fight on IVF [in vitro fertilization] protection in this country because it’s something that she has gone through herself and that she understands in a real way. There’s so many examples, I could take all our time talking about them. But there’s women like state Sen. Eva Burch (D) in Arizona who went to the floor of the legislature during their fight over that state’s abortion ban to talk about her needing to get abortion care.
So that has really been put front and center, and it has, like I said, really underscored the imperative around women’s leadership in this country—that we need women not just at the table, but really leading this fight.
Seeberger: Speaking of leading this fight, we know that Vice President Harris has made reproductive freedom a real key issue in her campaign. I want to ask you in a moment about the impact abortion will have on the race, but first, why do you think that reproductive freedom is such a strong issue for her?
Mackler: Well, I mean, the vice president is probably the best example we have in how powerful it is to have leaders, and particularly women leaders, who’ve been engaged in the fight for their whole careers and how important it is to have those leaders carrying this message.
For her to be at the top of this ticket and really run this unapologetically pro-abortion-rights campaign is incredibly powerful because this is the issue that is going to decide this election. And there are so many ways that the vice president understands this issue deeply because she has been engaged in it for so long.
And one of the things that I really think Republicans, but I would say political observers and pundits writ large, have gotten wrong or underestimated or misjudged over the past two years is just how deeply personal and intuitive the fight for abortion rights is, the issue of reproductive freedom is, for most voters.
I think most people look at it, and they say, “OK, well where does abortion stack up in a laundry list of issues that are going to have an impact on the election?” And while it’s true that voters vote with their whole selves and they care about a multitude of things, the issue of abortion rights and reproductive freedom is really foundational for a lot of voters.
This idea that you can’t be free if you don’t have the freedom over your own body is for a lot of voters, many voters, a deal breaker—probably many more voters than most people believe is true. And the vice president has understood that from the very beginning. And so that’s why you see her visiting a Planned Parenthood center, or you see her bringing state leaders to the White House to talk about what is happening around the country. And that is really powerful.
And when we see the impact that that’s had in terms of the excitement and the energy of women voters primarily, but all voters around the vice president, it is really because of the way that she understands this issue and that she’s centering it and the way she’s centering it in her campaign.
Seeberger: Sounds like it would be helpful for Ohio Republican Senate nominee Bernie Moreno—who made some recent comments this week that, “Why do women over 50 years old even care about abortion rights?”—stands to benefit if he would go and listen to the vice president when she’s talking on the campaign trail about what people really want.
So abortion is obviously going to play a big role in the election. Beyond the presidential race itself, how do you think it might influence things like voter turnout or the results up and down the ballot?
Mackler: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and that example that you just gave is a really good one. When you look at a Republican like Bernie Moreno—and he’s one example, but we have countless others. I mean, Donald Trump was at a rally just the other day talking about how women aren’t even going to think about abortion anymore if he becomes president. And I think both of those examples get at this misjudgment on the part of Republicans and a dismissiveness of women—
Mackler: —that really keys into this topic, which is: What does it mean for turnout? What does it mean for the outcome of the election? And we saw this post-Trump, we saw this post-Dobbs: When women are dismissed and cast aside, that really has sparked an outrage. And that outrage has a lot of power. And that’s something that we saw post-2022 that we at EMILYs List talked a lot about even before the Dobbs decision came down.
There were a lot of people that I don’t think really believed for a long time that the Dobbs decision and abortion rights would be as motivating as it is for voters. But what we knew at EMILYs List, because we’ve studied women voters for a very long time and we’ve done a lot of work electing women candidates, is that that outrage and that frustration and the anger of being cast aside, at being dismissed, would spark action.
And so we see—we have so many examples of this, right? We have voter registration spikes. We have people waiting in line in hot summer days in Atlanta to get into rallies for hours on end. And we have polling data. One stat I will offer up for listeners is that we have done a lot of research in this presidential race. We looked at enthusiasm to vote, motivation to vote, with young women voters, voters under 45. And we did that in April, and we looked at it again in July. We saw a 56-point swing—
Mackler: —that’s five-six. When they first told me that, I said, “You mean five to six?” Because we don’t see numbers like that. It just really doesn’t happen. And so that swing in motivation to vote for, that’s again, young women, under 45, between April and July—56 points, much more motivated to vote, and that’s really keying into the outrage, but being met in that outrage by candidates who are going to say, “We can offer a way out of this. Here’s what we’re going to do about it. Here’s what we do with that outrage.”
Seeberger: Also fueling that outrage, we have also been hearing some horrific stories in recent weeks about women being prosecuted for miscarrying in states like South Carolina, women dying in Georgia, and the death rate for pregnant women skyrocketing in Texas, following all those states enacting Trump abortion bans.
No matter your political ideology, the horrors that these women have had to suffer through, I think, can be really universally condemned. Could this be a way to talk with folks across the aisle and get them to understand the importance of reproductive rights, specifically in this election cycle?
Mackler: Absolutely, and the fact is that we don’t have to wonder about what a second Trump presidency will look like because women all over this country are living with the consequences of the first one.
Mackler: And these abortion bans, which really are Trump abortion bans, in place in states all over the country are truly life or death. We’ve been saying that for many years, but it’s not hyperbole. It is fact.
And the cases out of Georgia in particular—Amber and Candi, who had tragic preventable deaths because they didn’t have access to lifesaving abortion care—just further underscore that. And I think, again, this gets back to—the heart of this issue is so personal for voters because they can look at these cases, and they can say, “My sister, my mother, myself, my friend, have been in a situation where that could be me, or it could be somebody I love.”
Mackler: And it is hard to overstate the power of that connection and people seeing the ramifications of these abortion bans. And what we know is that the more power we give to Republicans, the more they are going to chip away at these rights. And so this is the case for women living in a third of the states in the country right now, but it is not far-fetched to say that it could be everybody in this country if we allow Republicans to pass a national abortion ban. And we know that that’s what they want to do.
Seeberger: Yeah, I have a friend right now who is pregnant in Texas, and she was telling me the other day after some of these stories came out that she’s just terrified at making it through her full pregnancy. And what if something goes wrong, right? These unexpected things can happen, and you don’t want somebody not to be able to talk to their provider, get the care that they need.
So it is just super personal, and I think that’s a really great point. I want to end the interview on a personal note. We like to do that here on “The Tent.” You’re a mom and got an abortion before Roe v. Wade fell in 2022. Can you talk about what this work means for you personally, and what really gives you hope to stay in the fight in these challenging times?
Mackler: Absolutely. Well yes, I mean, my first pregnancy before I had my oldest son was a missed miscarriage, is the term. And one of the things I think has been really important in the last two years is that we start really talking about the way that this works because this is basic health care.
I had a missed miscarriage, and so I needed a D&C [dilation and curettage], an abortion, in order to make sure that I could recover in a healthy way and that there were no further ramifications for my health. I will be honest, it was an incredibly traumatic and hard time for me. It was something to process, all of the different pieces of that.
But one thing that I didn’t ever have to worry about was the logistics of my care or whether I could access care or what would be the consequences if I couldn’t access care. Would I have to travel? Would I have to take time off work? Would I have to put additional resources into that? That was something that I just didn’t even question. I got safe and empathetic care from medical professionals, and that is the way it should be.
And we have seen so many stories since the fall of Dobbs in which women who are in that exact same situation were denied care, and there are many times where the consequences of being denied that care are catastrophic. We see women being told to go home with painkillers and thoughts and prayers and wait it out. And to be in that situation that I was in, and to be dealing with all of the trauma around the end of a pregnancy that I desperately wanted, and to have that added layer of having to go through what these women are going through—it is just horrifying. It’s horrifying to me. It’s horrifying to most empathetic, human people in this country.
But you asked what brings me hope, and I will say what—I started my career at EMILYs List, as you said at the top. I have only known politics through the lens of how we elect women and how we help get them into the office and see what they do when they are in office, the way that they change the dynamics for themselves, for people around them.
And in seeing women step up into this fight, and then seeing voters respond to that and to really be compelled by that imperative around women’s leadership, and to step up and say, “No, we’re not going to take this”—that is incredibly inspiring to me, and I feel both the honor and the responsibility of leading this organization at a time when these stakes truly couldn’t be higher and the mission is more important than ever.
Seeberger: Hear, hear. Jessica Mackler, thanks so much for joining us on “The Tent.”
Mackler: Thank you so much for having me.
Gibbs Léger: Well, that’s going to do it for us this week. Please be sure to go back and check out previous episodes. Before we go, Colin, let’s talk about football.
Seeberger: Do we have to, Daniella?
Gibbs Léger: We do. We do. My team won their first game.
Seeberger: Well, we’re very excited for you. How long has it been?
Gibbs Léger: It’s been a minute. And look, to be clear, we should have beat the Commanders two weeks ago. They did not score one touchdown. But we almost lost this game, so I’m not jumping up and down, but I will say that our No. 6 draft pick, Malik Nabers, is—he’s incredible. I just wish he had a better team around him.
Seeberger: That is tough. I have cheered on the Dallas Cowboys’ quarterback for a long time, and he has had at times no O-line, and at times he has had a great O-line. And yeah, if you don’t have a good team behind you, good luck. Because you could be a totally different player, right?
Gibbs Léger: Agreed. So, we’re playing each other on Thursday.
Gibbs Léger: So this will be interesting to see.
Seeberger: Tent listeners, we’ll see if Daniella and I both make it back in studio next week. And hopefully with no bruises or no pink slips or—
Gibbs Léger: We’ll see. Hey, I haven’t threatened to fire you yet, so I think that’s great.
Seeberger: Oh, that’s good. Yes, that’s good.
Gibbs Léger: Here’s something we can agree about, though: “Golden Bachelorette.”
Seeberger: Oh, it’s so great.
Gibbs Léger: It’s so great.
Seeberger: I know. The older folks just get it.
Seeberger: They really just wear their hearts on their sleeves, and—
Gibbs Léger: So precious.
Seeberger: —yeah. I mean, and I think bring to bear all of their vulnerabilities in a way that is great television and really draws the audience in to want to find out if they can have a happier ending than some of them have had previously in other relationships, or if they can find joy after suffering a really devastating loss, right?
Gibbs Léger: Yeah. It was really great to watch her connect with so many of these guys on that level.
Gibbs Léger: If I have a criticism of “The Bachelor,” regular “Bachelorette” franchise—I have several criticisms—it’s that you’re—
Seeberger: Go off, queen.
Gibbs Léger: —you’re sometimes taking 23-year-olds who are like, “I’ve never been in love and in a real relationship.” And I’m like, “OK, but you’re 23, so you haven’t lived a lot yet. So what are you talking about?” These folks have lived. They’ve lived full, rich lives. And so, to me, it makes for better television.
Seeberger: Totally agree, totally agree. What did you think of the guy who got the first impression rose, Keith?
Gibbs Léger: I thought Keith was cute.
Gibbs Léger: I was surprised it didn’t go to—what’s Kelsey’s dad’s name? Is it Mark?
Seeberger: Oh my gosh. I forget. I forget. Yeah.
Gibbs Léger: He’s extremely attractive. Very, very debonair older man. But yeah, I love Joan, and I think this is going to be a great season. I think these guys, the way they have such camaraderie with each other also—
Gibbs Léger: —it’s just so sweet.
Seeberger: There wasn’t too, too much drama on “The Golden Bachelor”—outside of my girl Kathy kind of losing it a little bit throughout the season. But I’m curious to see if there’s any drama during “The Golden Bachelorette.” I feel like these guys seem, so far, fairly low drama, but—
Gibbs Léger: So far, but it’s only been 90 minutes, so we’ll see what happens.
Seeberger: Tune in, folks, tune in.
Gibbs Léger: Exactly. All right, folks. We’re out of here. Take care of yourselves. It’s fall. Just fall into it. All puns intended. Enjoy, and we’ll talk to you next week.
“The Tent” is a podcast from the Center for American Progress Action Fund. It’s hosted by me, Daniella Gibbs Léger, and co-hosted by Colin Seeberger. Erin Phillips is our lead producer. Kelly McCoy is our supervising producer. Mishka Espey is our booking producer. Muggs Leone is our digital producer. Hai Phan, Matthew Gossage, Olivia Mowry, and Toni Pandolfo are our video team.
Views expressed by guests of “The Tent” are their own, and interviews are not endorsements of a guest’s perspectives. You can find us on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.